Dont Ask Me To “Support The Scene”
Just Dont Ask Me To Do It
Up until relatively recently, bands were reluctant to play over here due to the costs of playing on a small island somewhat off the beaten track from mainland Europe.
This has changed in recent years however as more and more bands decided to include Ireland in their “European Tour”. While this was going on, the Irish underground was still ticking away week after week regardless of whether or not some international band decided to visit these shores.
When it comes to local gigs, as was mentioned to me once, you can almost always predict who will be in attendance. The same faces are always in attendance more than 90% of the time. This is the same in most places around the country that have a local metal scene.
These people are the ones who keep the underground scene going and they are to be somewhat commended (if you’re into that kind of thing) for their dedication. But this is also where the problem arises.
Simply For The Sake Of It
Some of these people, the minority I might add, tend to develop a somewhat of a holier than thou approach when it comes to local gigs. This is where our wonderful “support the scene” mantra comes in to play. They are vehement in their belief that the scene must be supported.
While this is an understandable position to uphold it is not understandable to expect people to go to gigs just for the sake of going to gigs. The most recent example of this was Winterfest in Cork and the ensuing “discussion” (Here) that took place and is currently taking place on Metalireland.
Some people were shocked at the lack of attendance by local Cork “metalheads” and the fact that there were more people from outside of the City at the gig than locals. As expected this is where the “support the scene” phrase popped up again.
It is almost a heretical statement to say that you didn’t attend if you are a local resident and one can almost feel the looks of disapproval aimed directly at them once they even so much as hint at their lack of attendance.
It Isn’t Complicated
Regarding myself, I didn’t attend for one simple reason - I didn’t want to. Now that isn’t a rather complicated thing to understand but some people insist on making it complicated.
Again one can almost feel the looks of disapproval and accusations of being a “false” which in itself is as hilarious as it is stupid. People such as myself don’t go to gigs for rather simple, uncomplicated and valid reasons. They don’t want to and/or they can’t afford to.
In my own case, monetary reasons don’t come in to play. So the other reason we’re left with is that I simply didn’t want to go. It wasn’t apathy, lack of dedication or any other litany of completely fallacious accusations which tend to get strewn about the place. I just didn’t want to go and the main reason for this was….*drum roll*….the line-up.
Money Too Tight To Mention
I had no intention of paying €55 for the “privilege” of seeing a bunch of Irish bands and some international bands over the course of 2 days. If you want to, fine. Go ahead. But as soon as someone, such as myself, mentions that they didn’t go, instantly, the “support the scene” phrase is brought up once again.
There are those who insist on the “scene” being supported blindly and unquestioningly. This is not how it should be done. Any scene, no matter where it is, should be supported on its own merits and not just for the sake of supporting it.
It may not make many gigs financially viable but since when have most “metalheads” been interested in only the financial aspects of things? Granted there is no harm in wanting to break even when organising a gig but surely demanding attendance of locals is where the line must be drawn.
Frankly whenever I hear the term “support the scene” carted out, I cringe.
To me it represents an elitism that is all to present in the metal scene in Ireland today. The so called elders of the scene demand that it be supported without question and without any due thought. The “true metalheads” can do this if they want.
I on the other hand will remain a critic. I will pick and choose what gigs I want to attend on the merits of the bands playing and simply nothing else.
December 30th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
“Thanks for supporting the scene” is a sentiment we hear all too often from bands because they obviously rely on heads to turn up and watch them play. But from their perspective, it’s as much about supporting the scene, as simply ensuring there will be enough numbers at their gigs so as to not make a laughing stock of the whole effort (self-interest at play).
What can happen with a scene where the audience is comprised mostly of bands, is they start attending the gigs of other bands so as to show “support” which can look like a rather obvious attempt at being seen, and ensuring that the favour is returned down the line. Not a very genuine expression of support though is it? And who says people are obliged to go to shows anyways? Everyone has lives, which involve lots of time management in today’s complicated world.
The real argument we hear for supporting a music scene, is that without regular attendences, bands/promoters will lose any incentive they have to put on shows, resulting in a big drop or even a total collapse of shows - no more gigs for anyone! Booooo! Hissssssh!
Yet, while there may certainly be a decline in the overall number of gigs, I sincerely doubt if people will ever pass up the opportunity to play live simply because they’ll lose money. Lots of people throw money into hobbies that they never see a return on. Certainly, the bigger shows will cease but for the local bands, the desire for self-expression in public will overide any monetary concerns.
In fact, in the case of the “bigger or signed” bands, many of them go on the road and play shows, only to be worse off financially! Does it stop them? Not always. So in their case, playing music live means more to them than having a comfortable life. Their choice. And I doubt anyone will be passing a change jar around at their gigs. They’ll be too busy rockin’ out (or trying to figure out a way to score with that chick who keeps making eye contact) to even care.
I think what is affecting the attendence at gigs is because it’s all been said and done before. Most gigs unfold the exact same way. But people want to be entertained. Sure, the enjoy socialising but that can take play anywhere. Instead, at the gigs, they tend to get musicians putting in half-assed performances, with ropey playing and bad stage presence to boot. How many times can people be exprected to turn up to watch yet another band with their distorted guitars, angst and inane, out of synch, headbanging?
Maybe when the whole experience of a live show becomes more of an “event”, than watching a few lads play on a stage as though it’s their practise room, then things will pick up.
December 31st, 2009 at 1:27 am
When I hear people, mostly on here, going on about having to go to gigs to support the scene, it irritates the fuck out of me.
I don’t get to go to many gigs any more, these days. But it’s because of family constraints more than anything. Time and money are just things that I don’t have too much of any more.
I still go out of my way to buy albums, EP’s,demos or t-shirts from as many Irish bands that I feel deserve my support. But for now, I’m afraid that’s as far as my support for the scene can stretch. And to be honest! Except for a few gigs once in a blue moon, it probably won’t change at all.
January 2nd, 2010 at 12:35 am
No Community or person can and will support commercial Venues, Bands and Booking Agents forever.
The Beer Sales are always their Daddy Bitch !!!!!!!!!
A real scene in my eyes would have it’s own patch ( platform ) with stage and bands love to spend time and play there, even sometimes sober.( they exist)
But trust ,this lovey aspiration,
was never greatest virtue of the metal scene.
No matter was some of the Lyric’s say.
My heart goes to the unsigned Metal Bands playing these days so well for the fun and a bid hope before the main Acts or alone
on dirty stages.
They are the strongest support of the scene.
Thank you!
January 2nd, 2010 at 12:38 am
Too true, that.
January 5th, 2010 at 11:54 am
Why has the word ‘elitist’ become so debased and misunderstood in metal circles as to lose its original meaning.
For example, in this blog it is the ‘elitists’ who allegedly exhort people to ’support the scene’ by going to each and every gig that takes place.
However, according to the real meaning of the term, real ‘elitists’ would actually only support the best bands, promoters, labels etc. (i.e. ‘the elite’) and would happily see the rest wither on the vine.
As far as I can tell it, most people who trot out the old chestnut ‘elitist’ are just suffering from an inferiority complex because there are people out there who like more obscure bands that they do.
January 5th, 2010 at 6:04 pm
Absolutely John. It is fucking sad how many victims there are clogging up these boards feeling sorry for themselves because other people don’t like the same bands they do, and presuming that anyone who likes obscure bands are somehow all in cahoots against them.
On topic, I consider myself to be very much a part of the Metal scene in Ireland but do I go to every gig? No fucking way. I have no interest in going to see bands that I don’t like, that is just retarded. At the same time if I am at a gig I feel under no obligation to watch bands that don’t interest me either. I am there to enjoy myself and if that means hanging out with my mates talking shite and ridiculing falses then so be it.
January 5th, 2010 at 10:21 pm
Are these ‘guest blogs’ really a good idea if this is the sort of drivel that they lead to? I can’t believe I actually read almost half of that rubbish!
January 13th, 2010 at 12:40 am
Agree with the last three posts. This ‘elitist’ nonsense gets wheeled out far too frequently, and as Padre says this generally stems from persons who feel inadequate because others have more ‘obscure’ tastes. As for the main point, well I wholeheartedly think that people should ’support the scene’. If you don’t, then don’t bother moaning about the lack of gigs (in Cork or anywhere) when bands decide not to play there. From a Cork perspective, there were some very lean years gig-wise around the late 90’s, early 00’s. I think we had maybe Paradise Lost one year, and then Godflesh a year later. I remember first becoming a fan of Fugazi because they were one of the few bands to play Cork (metal or otherwise) and I went to their gig simply out of a desire to see good live music. In fairness, most of the blogs here are of a very decent standard but this is such self-pitying, smug bollocks.
January 13th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
I fail to see how it is “smug bollocks” or “self pitying”. I was making the point that people are elitist within the scene and expect it to be supported no matter what. It’s not a matter of me feeling “inadequate” due to someone else’s “more obscure” tastes in music. I’m 24, not an insecure 14 year old who feels that they have something to prove to the world and others regarding music taste. I have never complained about the lack of gigs in Cork. It really makes no difference to me, or a lot of people for that matter, if there are more or less gigs around here as frankly, a great deal of the bands that do play are of a sub-standard quality.
What you seem to be suggesting, as was my point in the blog, is that the scene should be supported regardless of its merits if it even has any. That’s the equivalent of saying that you should support Fianna Fail no matter what as they are one of the founding political parties of the State. Support the scene all you want but don’t try to inflict that dogma onto others. If I, or others, want to be proselytized too then we’ll head to the nearest church.
January 13th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
What, according to your definition, is an elitist?
Supporting things ‘no matter what’ is certainly not the conventional definition of an elitist.
It really is the most used and abused term in metal.
January 14th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
Apart from ‘good’.
January 21st, 2010 at 2:28 am
If you don’t get those regulars in the door then you’ll only get a few people who like, and want to see live, one of these underground bands - most bills would have barely anyone in then. Then you’d have no venues because they are making no money from the metal gigs and they’d switch to having a dj/indie/covers night instead. There’d be no venue at all for the bands you like. These guys who ’support the scene’ by showing up, are literally the only things keeping the scene from going under. There could be zero live gigs in your area without them. We had it bad for a few years in Limerick due to there being no scene at all after the high stool shut, so I appreciate what it takes to keep the underground active in my area and what it is worth to me as a fan.
I like to show up to the odd gig here to give the bands a bit of an audience to play in front of. I know they aren’t expecting to make any money, but I’d at least like to give them a bit of appreciation for driving all day from Dublin or even up North. I don’t have to go in but maybe I think they deserve to play to someone. I’ve played gigs in parts of the country to less than 5 guys and I don’t think any travelling band deserve that. I don’t talk down to guys who don’t ever come in for gigs, that’s their choice but they can’t expect there to be crowds or even gigs for their band locally then.
I can see the point you’re making about not turning up if the music is going to be shit, but you have to see why some people think it’s worth showing up for a few extra gigs where you might not know some of the bands playing. You could be surprised by what you see and help keep the live music scene going for another week.
January 21st, 2010 at 3:02 pm
Too many gigs too often with the same bands turning up again and again ad nauseum. Thats a sure fire way of killing off any interest even from the most “supportive” of gig audiences. Cork needs a few months without any gigs. Its as simple as that. Winterfest was the culmination of something thats been happening in Cork for over a year now and has been a feature in almost every gig discussion. Its oversaturated and is only going to get worse.
January 24th, 2010 at 1:29 am
The author makes valid points for both arguments. Although I acknowledge both the argument and counter-argument, I go to gigs weekly because I enjoy the majority of them and because I can afford to. I respect the other ‘regulars’ for it is them who allow the scene to thrive, but I would never expect people to turn up for the sake of it. Though I don’t think that reflects our metal scene very well, as we have many great local bands who play regularly. My only annoyance are people who are in local bands who complain when they don’t get a good turnout for gigs when they never bother coming out to support any other local bands and fellow peers themselves.
January 28th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
Demeyes, I think you are actually part of the problem and you don’t even realise it. Saying that a band deserves a crowd simply because they have travelled a few hours to play a gig is utterly ridiculous. If that is your criteria for going to gigs then that’s your business but I’d rather see the shit bands die off and leave only a handful of quality bands rather than a glut of bollocks. I’m not in any way obliged to support crap bands simply because they are making the effort. For fuck’s sake…
February 1st, 2010 at 12:44 am
In reply to Padre Pio, the use of elitist is purely semantics, on this level anyway. When elitist is used in say, military terms, you’re talking about a small number of people who are the best of the best. In metal terms though, whenever anyone says elitist we all know it refers to a group of holier than thou people who believe the scene begins and ends with them and what they supposedly support; that the words coming from their mouth are gospel and that no other opinion matters. If you say “elitist” to someone in Cork or Dublin, they’ll know what you mean. All it does is show the way that the same word can mean different things. It’s all context and semantics.
February 1st, 2010 at 4:05 am
shut up you thick cunt
February 1st, 2010 at 9:33 am
Yawn.
February 7th, 2010 at 7:50 pm
“shut up you think cunt,”…..good argument from the wise that,
as far as supporting the scene goes…
all the real,proper,hardcore metallers (i dunno what the fuck ye call yerselves) are quite happy to linger inside a hole of a pub drinking pints of piss from plastic glasses looking at another 3 bands who all want to be metallica/slayer/death, because thats how damn metal they are,and they are dedicated to supporting scene
when in actual fact,theyre slating all 3 bands,from the first note the play,saying the pints taste like shit, and wish there was some place else they could be,but fuck it,they paid a fiver to get in,so theyre gettin moneys worth
yeah,thats really supporting a scene right there
if ya dont like the look of a gig, dont cunting go,simple as
February 11th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
Plus you can’t get your hole.
February 25th, 2010 at 8:45 am
Well said, I love metal and go to as many gigs as i can, but i do like the feeling of going to a gig because i WANT to, not because i HAVE to. The whole ‘metal elitist’ crap really annoys me. Were not divided into ranks, we are all ‘metalheads’ and we all love ‘metal’, we are united by the love of our music but also we all have our own personal journey’s that we are on, so each to their own.
February 28th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
There are no words for this shit really but i’ll waste a few minutes scribbling down my two cents on a few things that caught my eye anyway,why not.I have to agree for the most part with the main blog,at least it’s honest.As for ‘victims’ clogging up the board feeling sorry for themselves because their taste in music isn’t appreciated??or whatever.When it crops up, what i have observed could just as easily be applied to people who champion the underground as those who listen to more mainstream stuff.I think the whole ‘problem’ is largely born out of a few paranoid souls (who i’m quite sure have plenty of good solid reasons for their untimately inane stance) and a few hangers on isisting on showing forum users the error of their ways.I find the whloe false elite thing not even worth the thread it’s printed on,laughable stuff and metalheads wonder why they get branded kids so often.
May 20th, 2010 at 8:57 am
As an active member of the metal scene in Cork, I would just like to point out that these die hard scene supports who go to EVERY metal gig that takes place purely just to accentuate their metalness and have a life long mission to try and force others to go to EVERY metal gig that takes place simply do not exist.
Not one person (that I know of) is going to go to a gig unless there is a band playing that they like, that they think they might like, a band who they are friends with are playing in or they think the gig might be a bit of fun regardless of who’s playing. Those who think that people have some kind of ulterior motive about this are wildy delusional. I don’t know, but perhaps it has stemmed from some kind of misinterpretation of sarcasm or a light hearted hazing being taken overly serious. For example, attending the Desecration gig in Cork a few weeks ago I ran into BIG TRON, to whom I said something along the lines of ‘Fancy seeing you at a gig that you’re not playing’. I was then hit with a barrage of defence about how one shouldn’t have to support the scene if they don’t want to. Cool yer jets mate, it was nowt but a (not so witty) quip about you playing in every fuckin’ band under the sun!
Point being, these ultra metal, comic book ‘elitists’ (I don’t even like to use that term in jest) are non-existant (except for Fuller) and anyone who believes otherwise is a bonafide nut job. Not in the Cork scene anyway, and I’ve seen the scene. Dublin or elsewhere may be a different story but that’s outside my realm of expertise.
May 20th, 2010 at 11:46 pm
Just to nit pick:
“I had no intention of paying €55 for the “privilege” ”
It’s just a ticket, it’s not a privilege, let’s not use hyperbole.
“Granted there is no harm in wanting to break even when organising a gig but surely demanding attendance of locals is where the line must be drawn.”
No-one involved with organising it demanded anyone’s attention, but we’re entitled to be disappointed and we’re entitled to enquire why people didn’t go: otherwise how would we learn how to fix the problem.
I agree with your general point about elitism and being expected to turn up for rubbish bands, but I think you’re slightly off target with your finger-pointing.
May 25th, 2010 at 12:57 am
Hyperbole or not, but the words in the title of the blog were uttered in the presence of “Big Tron” and while I was in the next room. My point was proven, to myself, and to “Bazzotron”.
Cheers for all of the comments, constructive or not.
May 10th, 2011 at 12:27 am
Support the scene???i would if yis were any good..every metal gig i go to is the same old tired shite..and the quality of the sound at most gigs!!! It all sounds like old napalm deth(thts not a compliment) and even if there is a good band the quality of the entertainmemt? ie banter good frontman yawwwwwnnnnnnnnnn! Support the scene!!! ehhhh no thanks
August 8th, 2011 at 9:59 am
“Plus you can’t get your hole.
“