Local Acts Too Cool For School?
LONLINESS OF THE LONG DISTANCE RUNNER
I should probably just keep this to myself, but I guess I had too much time to think while out running just now.
I’ve never really spoken to another runner about running, so I don’t know how it is for other people. But I find it boring. Tedious beyond belief, in fact. So, running 7.5 km five days a week gives me some time with not much to do other than think.
That’s 31 minutes on a good day and 34 on a bad – approximately six thousand strides – over the course of which my mind needs to be occupied, so that my body doesn’t give in. And because of the exertion involved, the thoughts that come are rarely happy, tranquil musings.
So, as one of only twelve paying customers at last night’s Gorath gig in the Lower Deck in Dublin (Thursday, 13th May 2010), the natural focus for my brooding on this evening’s trek through the streets of Dundrum was bound to centre on that particular fiasco.
Gorath say hi to considerably more people than the other night, yesterday
GROWING CONSENSUS
If you read through the Metalireland forum on a regular basis, you will no doubt have noticed a growing consensus of late that there are just too many gigs taking place at the moment. People don’t have the time, the money or the inclination to go and see every band that plays here anymore.
Even with the best will in the world, it’s just not possible. And of course there’s always the matter of the professionalism (or lack thereof) of the promoters, and their ability/dedication to not only advertising an upcoming gig but also in generating interest in said gig.
No question all of these factors played a role in the Gorath disaster, but one has to wonder at the part played in all of this by the local support bands too.
What exactly did either Wound Upon Wound or Dwell In Sun contribute to creating any interest in this gig? In fact, who the fuck are either band? And why should I be interested in them?
This New Wave Of Arrogant We’re Too Cool Posturing Metal (NWOAWTCPM) that seems to be doing the rounds here of late is really getting on my tits.
NONCHALANCE
These bands (and I’d like to stress that it’s not just the aforementioned) that are too special to have to let people know just who they are, and are clearly much too cool to be seen to belong to any kind of scene; to be seen to actually be putting an effort into what they are doing.
Whose merit by all accounts is in their very existence, and the apparent nonchalance – even disdain – with which they go about that existence. Way too cool for school these guys.
You may not like say For Ruin or Wreck Of The Hesperus, or prior to them Era Vulgaris, but you can’t use this forum and not have a fairly good idea of just which forum members are in either band. You can’t use the forum and not know when they’ll next be playing, when the next release is due, who they’ll be touring with, what part of the country they’re from, etc., etc., etc.
Another good example is Brigantia. I know who’s in the band, and I know where and when to catch ‘em live. I have a CD of the demo lying around at home and I have a couple of earlier free promo CDs of theirs as well.
And if I know a friend who might actually be interested, I can pass on a link to the demo without needing to give a second thought as to where to find it (as I have done on a couple of occasions already. And I’ll do the same with Mirrors Of Obsidian.). And, to tell you the truth, I don’t even like Brigantia!
RESPECT
But I can respect them.
There are thousands of bands out there begging for my attention. Throwing information at me. So many that I don’t have the time to investigate even 10% of them. So what, do these NWOAWTCPM bands think that just because of their ‘underground mystique’ I should use my limited time to go looking for information about them?! Well, fuck right on off.
Some might accuse John and For Ruin of flooding us with information; of oversaturating the MI community (as a few have done in the past). To them I’d say, “Bollocks!” The very proof of the value of what the lads are doing can be seen in the response they got at the Bolt Thrower gig in Dublin a few weeks ago.
A massive step up from the prior Fibbers gigs, and certainly not the result of preserving their ‘mystique.’ Bolt Thrower sell tickets on their own, but you know that any gig at which For Ruin support a lesser known headliner, John and co. will have done their utmost to draw people along, to generate interest.
So, you NWOAWTCPM bands wonder why no one comes to your gigs? Why no one buys your demo? Why of the limited run of 50 t-shirts you had made up 45 are still lying around in your mother’s attic? Let me ask you, why the fuck should anyone bother?
Again to hark back to the For Ruin example, after all the work John and co. have put in; after some great demos, a potentially very good (but somewhat unfortunate) debut, and a storming second album and the money they invested in it, they still give the damn thing away for free!! And you don’t need to google it to find out how to get it.
The info is all here on MetalIreland. And if I’m too lazy to download it without first seeing a few opinions on it … no problem. Every review EVER written about For Ruin is here for all to see; all in the one place. No searching required.
RANT
To bring it back to last night’s Gorath gig, as the example that inspired this rant; not one of the supports did anything in the run up to last night to create in the Irish Metal community an interest in going to see either Wound Upon Wound or Dwell In Sun (never mind the foreign headliners).
And on the night, neither band had a demo on sale. Neither one had t-shirts. Nor were there flyers advertising upcoming gigs of theirs, or providing info on future releases.
Is either band playing Dublin Doom Day? Or the gig the night before? Maybe, but sure as shit, neither band felt any inclination to inform me or anyone else at the gig last night. Also telling was that, bar a couple of girlfriends, it seemed neither band was arsed to bring their mates along to see them play. And one of them (with girlfriends in tow) couldn’t even be bothered sticking around for the headliner. On another night who’d have noticed, but when the result is a 25% reduction in the audience it tends to stand out.
So, you want to make your band work? You want attendances at your gigs? Well then, take your heads out of your arses lads.
DBM
May 18th, 2010 at 12:13 am
I can’t speak for their performance on the night in question but Wound upon Wound seem to be promoting themselves adequately enough on these here forums. I remember a decent push when they had samples of their new EP online. Dwell in Sun are well enough known in the doom/sludge circles too. I don’t see the problem there, either. Neither are playing DDD, so no need for them to advertise that. Brigantia isn’t much more well known than the aforementioned and I highly doubt their inclusion on the Dublin bill would have made a noticeable difference to the turnout.
As far as the Cork show goes, there were a load of gigs on that Friday night, and a bazillion this month. Marvin were playing for free in the Quad and it was packed. That’s where a portion of the “cross-over crowd” was anyway. It’s also exam time, which has definitely affected my decision to hit other gigs in the past few weeks (I skipped 65 Days of Static last night because of assessments. Didn’t want to but it had to be done).
Bad timing for a band of their size, pure and simple.
May 18th, 2010 at 2:33 am
First of all, what on earth was the constructive or even remotely usefull merit of this post? Please inform me as im quite baffled.
“What exactly did either Wound Upon Wound or Dwell In Sun contribute to creating any interest in this gig? In fact, who the fuck are either band? And why should I be interested in them?
This New Wave Of Arrogant We’re Too Cool Posturing Metal (NWOAWTCPM) that seems to be doing the rounds here of late is really getting on my tits.”"
What wound upon wound did for this gig was make the best of an already bad situation, there was a mess up on the previous promoters part and WE took over and promotion for this gig. There was flyer work, poster work and various online threads and facebook events for this gig.
“I should use my limited time to go looking for information about them?!”
Ever heard of google? We have a myspace, we have a last fm, we have a facebook. We’ve advertised our upcoming DEBUT release on this very site, so what on earth more do you expect from a band just starting out? Do you want us to knock round to your house and hand you a leaflet about what exactly it is we do? Or perhaps that may involve a little to much searching on you part?
“To bring it back to last night’s Gorath gig, as the example that inspired this rant; not one of the supports did anything in the run up to last night to create in the Irish Metal community an interest in going to see either Wound Upon Wound or Dwell In Sun (never mind the foreign headliners).”
See above, we PROMOTED the gig, we ORGANISED the gig after sombody else messed up originally. Seriously, how much more can an opening act do? And for the record, the majority of people who comprised the audience were people we knew.
“And on the night, neither band had a demo on sale. Neither one had t-shirts. Nor were there flyers advertising upcoming gigs of theirs, or providing info on future releases.”
And finally, our DEBUT release, isn’t out yet, how can you expect a band to bring along cd’s to sell when there ARE NO CDS TO SELL? They are at a pressing plant at the moment and were delayed so we didn’t have them in time for this gig, surely this is a more than reasonable reason for not having cd’s?
And finally, seen as how you can’t be bothered to “go looking” for us maybe this will be of some use:
http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=wound+upon+wound&aq=f&aqi=g3g-m2&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
http://www.myspace.com/wounduponwound08 (if google is too much to handle)
Search function on metalireland and facebook is pretty handy too.
I’d appreciate a responce.
Leigh
Wound Upon Wound
May 18th, 2010 at 2:40 am
oh, and also, check the dublin gig thread for people actually saying they saw tons of flyers at various gigs.
(as the search function appears to be a little to much to comprehend: http://www.metalireland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41723&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60 )
As i said before, i’d really appreciate another highly intellectual and well researched responce to our gig on your part.
Leigh
Wound Upon Wound
May 18th, 2010 at 2:46 am
I would imagine there were only 12 people at this because gorath are shit:)
May 18th, 2010 at 9:20 am
seems like a pointless rant
and from the responses above it looks like you didn’t do your research too well
but on a general note
over saturation breeds contempt
bands have to find a balance between informing and annoying the fuck out of punters
most do
+ I’ve heard of both these support bands but never heard of brigantia
May 18th, 2010 at 11:40 am
Thanks for the help with the search function, Leigh. I appreciate the tip. Although I had seen Jim’s post at the time actually, which was why just a couple of posts later I made the point that even though I attended five gigs in the space of seven days that week, I somehow managed to avoid picking up or even seeing a flyer for Gorath entirely. I’ll leave that at that, though, as I’m not trying to make this into a sarcy war of words with any individual. The blog was simply me, as a scene outsider of sorts, voicing an opinion on my perspective on something I firmly believe to be an issue at the moment; and it’s a view that I’m not alone in. That you don’t agree with it is fine. And hey, maybe I’m wrong, but the text above reflects how I perceive it to be.
If the members of various bands in this country (and I’m leaving the promotion of underground gigs aside, as it was not the focus of my rant to begin with) think they are doing all they can to promote themselves - maybe ‘promote’ is too mechanical and leads to incorrect associations, what I’m talking about is ‘creating a buzz’ about their music -, then fine. Good luck to them. My perception of it is simply that there are some working very much harder than others. In fact, as I see it, there are a great many simply waiting for Eoin McLove to do their promotion for them.
The target of the rant was not specifically either WuW or DiS, but as the Gorath gig was the tipping point for me, those were to two names mentioned as examples, and as you asked the questions Leigh, I’ll highlight specifically with references to WuW - although again stressing that it applies to numerous other bands equally.
- WuW are not represented in the MI Wiki.
- The last thread about WuW on the main forum dates back to March 1st, and has gone uncommented on since March 30th . It’s now on page 14(!) of the forum (whoever mentioned ‘poorly researched,’ you can stick it). In the month and a half coming up to the Gorath tour there was not a single update made. That’s not conducive to generating an interest in your band or in the upcoming gigs.
- That particular thread mentions a demo out in late April … April’s been and gone, and no one’s any the wiser. I thought I’d be able to pick ‘Grievance’ up at the gig, but … nothing. Given that something is obviously in the pipeline - and that there might even by one or two people actually anticipating it - you might have had flyers to advertise it. Or is anticipation of an upcoming release not deemed a valuable marketing tool anymore?
- Dublin Doom Day again was mentioned simply by way of example. WuW might have six more gigs lined up between now and the end of the year, the gig last week would have been the perfect time to inform me and others who don’t regularly visit MI about them. I assume, however, that you have not a single gig penned in for the foreseeable future.
- And posting an ad on the gig forum, and following it up with a page and a half of ‘bumps’ … well that is not promotion as far as I’m concerned, and it’s certainly got nothing to do with ‘creating a buzz.’ There are way too many gigs on at the moment (as acknowledged in the blog), and it seems you inherited a tough situation when you stepped in, I accept all of that. But, as UniBrow mentioned, the Marvin gig in Cork was packed in spite of the current gig excess. Why is that? Are there no Black Metal fans in Dublin, Belfast or Cork? Was the Gorath line-up no good? (I certainly don’t believe that was the problem.)
So, you think I’m just aiming a pointless and unconstructive rant at you. Well, I’m sorry you feel that way. But, I like what I’ve heard of WuW, and I can’t help but think you could be doing more; that there’s more potential in WuW still to be exploited.
As for Scald’s comment about ‘oversaturation breeding contempt’: you’re not wrong, but I for one find it’s usually limited to the little people who just can’t bear to see others having a go at something.
May 18th, 2010 at 5:01 pm
“- WuW are not represented in the MI Wiki.”
Metalireland is a microcosm, the world does NOT revolve around metalireland.
“- The last thread about WuW on the main forum dates back to March 1st, and has gone uncommented on since March 30th . It’s now on page 14(!) of the forum (whoever mentioned ‘poorly researched,’ you can stick it). In the month and a half coming up to the Gorath tour there was not a single update made. That’s not conducive to generating an interest in your band or in the upcoming gigs.”
You go on later to say that bumping threads constantly without real updates doesn’t generate a buzz, surely this applies here? No? Any gig updates we have tend to get posted in that thread, but thats not entirely nessicary seen as how every gig we’ve every played has a seperate gig thread in the forum.
“- That particular thread mentions a demo out in late April … April’s been and gone, and no one’s any the wiser. I thought I’d be able to pick ‘Grievance’ up at the gig, but … nothing. Given that something is obviously in the pipeline - and that there might even by one or two people actually anticipating it - you might have had flyers to advertise it. Or is anticipation of an upcoming release not deemed a valuable marketing tool anymore?”
Our cd has been delayed several times due to factors out of our control. This however, is none of your business. Constantly bumping ourthread and telling people “oh sorry more delays” is more than a little irritating, i’ll announce when its out. we never gave a definate date anyway.
All of this is aside from the point. Weather you do or do not see our self-promotion skills as adequate is you’re own opinion, and you’re entitled to that. Making an example of and unfounded and untrue accusations about my band, or anyone elses however, IS NOT ON. You wrote a quite frankly insulting blog post taking into questi on the amount of effort we put in without knowing anything even close to the truth. I find this absolutely disgracefull.
An apology wouldn’t go amiss.
Or perhaps i should write a blog about how awful a writer diathi is because he put minimal effort into researching for his shit article?
Wait no, I have decency, and wouldn’t intentionally shit on someones reputation without knowing the full story.
Leigh,
Wound Upon Wound
May 18th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
“(whoever mentioned ‘poorly researched,’ you can stick it). ”
actually Leigh it was aimed at the original blog
I did word it badly though
so my bad
May 18th, 2010 at 6:01 pm
was just quoting diati man! i didn’t say that
May 18th, 2010 at 7:00 pm
If there’s any merit in the original argument, it’s completely lost on the bands chosen and I can see why Leigh is taking it as slander. My own band had a “review” in a certain territorial zine a couple of years ago which made all sorts of false accusations and it’s frankly insulting - not to mind discouraging - to see such poorly researched articles published. Constructive criticism is all well and good, but only when its founded in truths.
I’d almost ask CT to remove this if it were on my own band.
May 18th, 2010 at 7:12 pm
“I’d almost ask CT to remove this if it were on my own band”
I PM’d him earlier today merely asking for a reason as to why he allowed such a riddiculus article to be published on the site.
Thanks for your understanding scald and unibrow
May 18th, 2010 at 8:14 pm
Leigh and I disagree, which is fine with me. That I might be wrong is fine too. I have been before and will be again. I can accept that. But I commented on a wider phenomenon in the ‘scene’ as I see it (and not just a band or a gig), and I stick by that. I chose to base the topic on a specific gig, however, and used the bands in question to illustrate a point, when perhaps I could have spoken in general terms. I concede that that was, in hindsight, possibly not the right approach. For that I apologise. Perhaps I should have named numerous examples, so that no one band felt victimised. I can see that Leigh’s heart is in Wound Upon Wound, and I apologise for giving the impression that that might not be the case.
I’m happy to emphasise again now that I’m not looking solely to have a go at say ABC and XYZ, but an attitude that seems to me to be prevalent here at the moment. And I’m happy to concede following private messages traded with Leigh that he feels a lot of work was done behind the scenes for the gig, and I will mention that I found the organisation on the night in question to be smooth (bar the absence of people and an open bar until a whole hour after doors). The sound was great, the changeover between the bands was quick and easy. No organisational problems at all. All three performances were good, too.
Leigh also wants me to apologise with regard to the promotion, however, as he feels that the good promotion has been “PROVEN.” I don’t see anywhere that anything has been PROVEN with regard to promotion, though; not promotion in the context clearly spoken of above. Where was it proven? In one statement on the forum that there were flyers about? A statement by one person, who incidentally was not completely uninvolved in the organisation of the tour? I repeat, I was at two gigs the week before Gorath, and five the week before that, and I never saw a flyer anywhere. I said all along that the blog is my perception, and I can’t ‘perceive’ promotion if I’m not seeing any signs of it.
Was it ‘proven’ in a dated and long forgotten thread about ABC on the main forum? In the thread announcing the gig on the gig discussion page with all of about two constructive contributions made after the first post (and one of those contributions by me, I might add)? That’s not generating interest. If no one is discussing the gig, and if no one is discussing the bands (even generally, outside of the scope of the gigs), then there is no interest being generated. And that being the case, my argument – which I stand by – is that the onus is on the bands to create that. And if all you can think to do to make that happen is to refresh the MySpace page, make up a new poster, post a review of other live performances from elsewhere, photos from other live dates, make an announcement reminding people that a demo is imminent, then so be it.
Just do something. It was clear to me a week ahead of the Gorath gig in Dublin that it was dead in the water. Even for the bigger gigs like Suffocation and Cathedral - bands with an established fan base – the promoters will constantly make minor updates to the gig announcement to keep people on the ball, and often will have some related discussion on the main forum - whether it be focused on a particular release by the band in question, or whatever.
Again, I make a distinction between the organisation of the gig, which I don’t doubt Leigh put effort into, and the issue of ‘generating an interest.’ I don’t think very much was done (and I don’t wish to imply laziness as Leigh suggests, just that it wasn’t done) to generate an interest in this – or many other – gigs, and as I highlighted using the example of the ABC thread in the main forum, I don’t think much was done to get people ‘up’ for the gig.
It seems both Leigh and I agree apparently that ‘bump’ is not a satisfactory way of keeping people aware of what’s happening - in fact, I think it puts people off - but I cannot believe that the five members of the slighted band did not at some point feel the need to revive their thread once in the six weeks running up to the gigs. The band is not yet an established band. Do they think the Irish community is constantly monitoring their activities of its own accord and knows all about them, so that no announcements are required? Do they think the casual observer remembers a post about one as yet largely unknown Irish band made all of two and a half months previously?
Leigh is right in saying the ‘why’ of the delay to the release of the demo is none of my business, and none of my concern. It’s not. Nor am I interested in the band’s financial situation, problems with the duplication plant, problems with the printers, etc. I couldn’t give a shit. But if you think that some news regarding the band has no bearing on people’s ‘interest’ in the band, and the likely attendances at a gig, you’re very much mistaken.
I stand corrected also on the fact that no friends of the slighted band came. And I apologise for that. Although I see this as even more of an indictment, to be honest. Where the four who travelled across the country amongst the 12 payers? If so, that means that the ‘interest generated’ was only sufficient to get all of 8 people from Dublin to pay in. Does that suggest to you that there was any interest generated in this gig whatsoever? Where they amongst the 10(!) people watching Gorath come the end of the night? By my count, that would make an audience comprised of WuW, their four pals and me! An indictment.
I agree also that MI is not the be all and end all of Metal in Ireland. It is, however, a hugely important resource. If bands choose not to avail of the Wiki, etc., then that’s fine. But don’t come to me then and say, that everything is being done to promote the band, when clearly it is not.
DBM
May 18th, 2010 at 8:30 pm
Well, apology somewhat accepted, ill be happy once this blog is gone. The running of my band is no concern of anyone’s but my own anyway, I’ll promote as I see fit and when i see fit.
And seen as how pm’s are being re-pasted here the responce to Diathi’s last message and this topic which closes how i feel on the issue of the ORIGINAL blog is as follows:
Keep justifying your blog if you want, i really don’t care at all anymore because its blantantly obvious that the most of it is untrue.
I will say this however; Its grossly unfair to paint a band who worked very very hard in the organisation of a gig as lazy and unwilling to promote themselves. Perhaps my promotion skills aren’t the best? who knows, but lazy, i am not.
Both ourselves and Brigantia(The band YOU praised) were playing the following night with gorath, at a gig organised by jim(the main promoter in cork, so clearly his promotional skills aren’t flawed) and had a mere 3 more payers than the dublin show. Lack luster effort on wuw’s part in dublin? or bad timing for a gorath tour?
I’ll say it again, a decent reputation is a hard thing to uphold, especially for a new upcoming band. Cheers for knocking a dent in ours and painting us as a lazy unreliable band, that really helped us.
Hope you’re proud.
May 18th, 2010 at 8:30 pm
Oh and for the record, Diathi’s last comment was somewhat more reasonable
May 19th, 2010 at 9:54 am
Its a pity that the comments section of this blog has become some type of flame war between the author and one of the bands that the blog was using as an example of the problem in hand.
It seems that the wider world of metalireland has no opinion bar one or two about this tsunami of gigs that are taking place in the metal scene right now. Plug my interests in the hardcore scene and live music in general and I could be out 5 nights a week easy.
When this forum was on its feet a year or two there was a discussion that lasted a bit over wheter a sub forum for gigs should be created or not as the frequency of gig announcements started to rise mainly in my opinion to people beginning to network through this very site.
At this stage it seems like everyones a gig promoter, with varying degrees of success. The amount of gigs being plugged on the gig announcements forum shows a plethora of gigs happening all over the country. Can we base the health of the scene on the number of gigs that are happening. I think not.
I think the health of the scene would be better based on the quality of the gigs that are being put on and the quality of the touring bands that are coming around.
And Im fairly sure thats the type of discussion Daithi was trying to kickstart on this blog post.
May 19th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
“Its a pity that the comments section of this blog has become some type of flame war between the author and one of the bands that the blog was using as an example of the problem in hand.”
Apologies for turning it into that, but i had to make sure to at least try and show people that anything said in that blog about my band was absolutely untrue. Normally i’d stay far away from something like this.
Anyway, let whatever discussion that was intended continue!
May 19th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Don’t really know where to start with this. We (Dwell In Sun) came the whole way from the North to play this and travelled for hours and had to leave straight after we played because I had an exam the next morning. So please don’t question our dedication because if I had not been interested in the gig I would have cancelled and saved myself the hassle of travelling all that way.
While we may not be the most shameless self promoters on the planet or anything we do keep people up to date with our upcoming gigs via our myspace and facebook and through metalireland. What else are we meant to do? Not to blow our own trumpets but we are fairly well known in the doom metal scene and I don’t really feel the need to constantly gaining new fans. We play music for ourselves nobody else and if people like it
then that is a plus.
From a gig promoter point of view sometimes no matter how much promotion you do for a particular gig it just doesn’t happen. Fair enough there was a lot of metal gigs on recently and it was kinda doomed to suffer but if it weren’t for people promoting smaller gigs the Irish metal scene would suffer significantly.
Daithi I think you really should think before opening your mouth. This blog has to be some of the biggest uniformed rubbish I’ve ever seen on this site. I’d like to know what you have been contributing to Irish metal if you feel it your duty to crticise others? Wise up!
May 19th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Mackle wrote: “I’d like to know what you have been contributing to Irish metal if you feel it your duty to crticise others? Wise up!”
This. Having a go at the band that organised the gig is a step too far and that “New Wave Of Arrogant We’re Too Cool Posturing Metal” reeks of jealousy. This place has turned into wankerireland.
May 19th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
Quote from Leigh M - “I’ll say it again, a decent reputation is a hard thing to uphold, especially for a new upcoming band. Cheers for knocking a dent in ours and painting us as a lazy unreliable band, that really helped us.
Hope you’re proud.”
There’s only one reputation that’s been dented, and neither band mentioned above needs to worry.
May 19th, 2010 at 5:25 pm
Pity this wasn’t posted before the Gorath shows, might have generated some interest
I watched Gorath’s set in Cork, and thought they were excellent. WuW had vastly improved since their previous appearance here and Brigantia were just fantastic - as anyone would have expected them to be. Overall concensus is correct. too many gigs around the place in one month. 3 of the 5 in Cork on the night were announed after the Gorath one, and 4 of them were free. just bad luck more than anything
May 20th, 2010 at 12:16 am
Christ almighty.
May 20th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
What Barry said… Jesus lads, no need to be blowing things out of all proportion here. The fact of the matter is there was no buzz around this gig. I would like to have gone to see WUW and DIS, and to a lesser degree Gorath but I had no money. There is a shocking amount of gigs on these days, and while that is great in that it means more choice, it also means that more gigs will be poorly attended. This is out of the hands of the promoters, it is just how things are- especially with exams, recession and whatnot. Bumping a thread constantly without actually giving any news is fucking annoying, whether it be about a demo/album/gig or whatever but that being said, it is still important to generate some kind of interest in whatever it is you are promoting. When there is such a glut of gigs coming up it is important to try to keep your at the forefront of peoples minds. Ah, whatever. give me some money or wine or something.
May 22nd, 2010 at 12:50 am
Sure not to worry lads, there’s plenty of kleenex for all, give those eyes a good drying off
May 22nd, 2010 at 10:02 am
It’s all been said already but I think the major factor for Cork was the amount of gigs on,one in the Cruiscin,a punk gig in freds and Marvin and IEYF were playin in the Quad and they were free,I managed to goto the Cruiscin and Freds on the night because I left the Cruiscin early but if I found out about that gig in the Quad before the Cruiscin one and because it was free I know where I would have been,The Quad!
May 24th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
First off I think you’re speaking out your ass about the whole NWOAWTCPM nonsense, I’ll just leave it at that.
On to the real point I guess of the number of gigs going on. Yes there are a huge amount..
Have to ask though who do you propose polices the number of gigs? who decides what gigs are worthy in a city and what are unwanted clutter? People will go to the ones they want to and not to the ones they don’t simple.
I don’t personally don’t get to most gigs that happen in Belfast. I’m sure I miss some good stuff, but I still catch a lot of good music. Much as I love my rock there are plenty of other things going on out there.
May 24th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Response to Leigh!!
“Well, apology somewhat accepted, ill be happy once this blog is gone. The running of my band is no concern of anyone’s but my own anyway, I’ll promote as I see fit and when i see fit”
If your promoting and all that “as you see fit”, and if the running of “your” band is “of no concern to anyone other than yours”
then why are you acting like a little bitch when you get criticism after playing in front of 12 people!!! .. grow the fuck up and take it on the chin man!!
May 24th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
I’m not familiar with the gig / bands in question, but from a “neutral” MI user perspective I gotta say that this article is bad form.
I’m guessing the author has had a rant brewing in him for sometime and the bands in question just seem to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time, the irony being that they would’ve escaped the author’s ire if they had not bothered making any effort at all and simply not played the Gorath gig after the initial promoter dropped out.
May 24th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
“then why are you acting like a little bitch when you get criticism after playing in front of 12 people!!! .. grow the fuck up and take it on the chin man!!”
My gripe with this article was the fact that it was poorly researched, surely its not unreasonable to get annoyed and stand your ground if whats written isn’t true.
Anyway, im glad most people here can see that and offer constructive opinions on the issue
May 24th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
I think the blog was tactless at best and pure arseholery at worst.
To call out a NEW band like that is bad form, especially if you have no idea what way they operate.
They aren’t Primordial, they don’t have 20 gigs in the pipeline and a discography and merch line that can be pulled out at anytime.
And to be honest if I was playing in front of 12 people, all of whom I
If you’re gonna get onto anyone about this (and i’m not suggesting you should) then would it not make more sense to criticize Gorath who really got it wrong, by headlining their own tour when they’re basically an unknown commodity, in the middle of a very cluttered gigging calendar here in Ireland!
May 24th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
sorry my computer went gammy there!
I was trying to say that if I were playing in front of 12 people 10 of whom I knew, I wouldn’t be plugging anything, I’d play the songs, thank the people who turned up and drown me sorrows!
Its really easy for you to tell WuW how to act from the comfort of your computer chair, its another thing to try understand the entire set of circumstances.
May 25th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
non-existent reputation of gorath and it being the deck on a thursday night were def the main problems with the gig.
May 30th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
I’d love to know what exactly qualifies Daithi to tell anyone how they should or shouldn’t operate their band.
May 30th, 2010 at 9:37 pm
I think the OP here really puts a bit too much stock on MI too. In reality only a fraction of bands bother posting here let alone on a regular basis. The community is mostly Belfast/Dublin based and there is very little support for anything other than old school/doom/thrash/death on here. That leaves out a huge amount of bands so don’t take MI as an accurate representation of a bands workrate/promo or of the Irish metal scene even.
May 31st, 2010 at 12:10 am
had heard about this article and really just cannot believe it was published. bad form.
May 31st, 2010 at 2:51 pm
I understand and appreciate why people feel this should be taken down. But take a second to reflect on why it was put up in the first place.
The blogs section of MI, as I’ve made clear time and again through repeated open invitations, is a corner for anyone who wants to express their views. It’s very obviously an opinion, rather than review, space.
I’m not familiar with the issues Daithi is discussing, and I neither agree nor disagree with the conclusions. I wasnt at the gig in question and dont have a stance.
However disagreeable, his words are an honestly held point of view - and that’s what this section is for.
Further than that, it has a full right of reply from both those discussed, and the floor in general. Many people have made their feelings known - again, that’s what this space is for.
So to calls for taking the article down, I say no. What I do say however is make your feelings unequivically known in response.
Further I’ve already been on to WuW offering a full interview in response, which I hope can be done within the next week or two.
At this point I’d just like to reiterate my open offer - to anyone, who wants to pen their thoughts, simply email me with it. That’s what this section’s for.
May 31st, 2010 at 3:41 pm
Being in WuW, and having read all this going on since it was published, I still have to agree with Ciarán in that Daithi’s entitled to say what he wants. Yeah, he may have been misinformed but that happens and he’s still entitled to voice his opinions.
Cheers to Ciarán for the opportunity you mentioned above as well!
May 31st, 2010 at 4:07 pm
Ciarán,
I commend you for providing such a platform - I really think these blogs have a lot of potential, and there already have been a few interesting ones - but shouldn’t there be some degree of quality control when it comes to the research the blog writers make? It’d be a shame to see the blog turn in to a repository of ill-founded rants. Seeing that it’s a main fixture of the site, and potentially a place for some excellent discourse on the state of the “scene”, I’d personally like to see a reasonable standard of journalistic (for want of a better word) credibility upheld.
The above blog was presented well enough and, as you said you’re not familiar with the “issues” discussed, I can see how it could have slipped through the net. The thing is the “issues” weren’t and are not issues, and therefore the blog is a pointless headache for the bands involved. That’s hardly a positive thing? Fair enough if the rant was in a thread in the forum, but the blogs are going to carry more weight, as they’re almost presented like features, and are ultimately going to be more representative of the site - especially to more casual visitors.
I just think there’s potential for the blogs to be much better than that. Just my two cents.
June 2nd, 2010 at 2:41 pm
The issues ARE issues otherwise they wouldn’t be an issue. There were twelve people at the gig and there was absolutely no hype around it. Gorath are an unknown quantity, fair enough they were posting here regularly before the gig but I personally wasn’t convinced. That may be a taste issue but clearly there was a problem if no one went to the gig bar a few of WUW’s personal friends and… DAITHI! He is probably the ONLY person here qualified apart from the bands to say what went on. I really think this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. Reputations being tarnished my hole… who gives a fuck, really? It will all blow over and we will all move on to the next topic of discussion. I think Daithi has every right to post up what he said. There are far too many gigs and not enough buzz around most of them. and we are all fucking broke, and yes i speak on behalf of everyone in the country.
June 2nd, 2010 at 3:22 pm
I’m not disputing the fact there were issues surrounding the gig, but the majority of Daithí’s post is about how little the support bands care and how their attitude contributed the failure of the gig, which is bullshit. NWOAWTCPM? Fuck that.
June 2nd, 2010 at 5:03 pm
Fair enough but I still think the levels of drama going on around it are a bit out of proportion. We aren’t talking about buckin’ Metallica.
June 2nd, 2010 at 7:56 pm
I think the first post was magnificent. EV were mentioned in something approaching a positive light - thumbs up!
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:25 pm
As with WotH, which is why Andy’s ok with it haha.
June 2nd, 2010 at 9:04 pm
Rumbled hehehe
June 3rd, 2010 at 10:47 am
This blog is a disgrace. A nonsensical rant which the author attempts to justify by stating that it’s not the bands in question he’s taking aim at. I’m amongst the first to speak up in support of free speech, everyone has the inviolable right to an opinion, no matter what that opinion may be, but this “article” (I use the term VERY loosely) verges on the downright spiteful.
Its hardly the fault of the support bands if a gig dies on its arse, where was the effort and promotion of the headliner/ their PR people? Presumably if the author went to the gig in the first place he was a fan of the headliner. Funnily enough, he doesn’t get lashed into them. Or are they too cool to do their own promotion, and the support bands should do it for them? Calling the support bands “posturing” hardly seems fair. Admittedly, there is an AWFUL lot of posers operating in the business at the minute, but a band that travels from the North to play a gig like this, presumably for no reward considering they’re a support band, knowing they have to go straight home after it to sit exams the next day, are hardly arrogant. These boys deserve to be lauded, not pilloried. And before anyone labels me a fan, and therefore biased, (I’ll admit I get unreasonably sensitive in defending bands I have a soft spot for) to be perfectly honest I’ve never heard either of the support bands and couldn’t give a shit about them, but their willingness to put in the hard yards cannot be questioned, and for that I applaud them. Hopefully, I’m not the only one.
What exactly does the author want from these lads? Had they went on a full-scale propaganda assault and had a catalogue of merch for the gig, they’d have been labelled try-hard falses who should let their music do the talking. I can imagine the comment in that case would have been somewhere along the lines of “who the fuck do these guys think they are?” It’s happened before.
Another thing that grinds my gears is the constant bleating of “too many gigs.” The problem is not so much that there are too many gigs per se, but there are too many gigs that no one has heard of. Regardless of how critically acclaimed the band are in the underground, if no one has heard of them no one will go. Fuck the recession, 8000 people turned out two nights in a row to see Metallica, Rihanna did similar numbers, and Snow Patrol have sold 40000 tickets for Ward Park, Bangor, on Saturday. Now I know that all these gigs are Belfast shows and only Metallica have any real relevance to the metal scene, but the simple fact remains that if people want to go to gigs, they clearly still do. The tickets for these shows were hardly cheap after all. If you’re wondering why the attendances at your gigs are horrible, first question if your music is horrible. Now I’m not for ONE MOMENT saying that popularity equates to ability, or that bands should pander to the pursuit of almighty coin, but extreme music is by its very nature a very small niche market, and large attendances at shows that by their compostion will appeal only to a very small percentage of available punters simply cannot be expected, other than for a very very few bands who have in any case transcended the boundaries of their scene to become well-known in a wider context.
In closing, the comment which basically amounted to saying that because the support band was not listed on the MI Wiki, they were no-one, simply typifies the all-too-common chip on the shoulder that this sites user’s are sadly more and more frequently carrying these days.
June 3rd, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Hehe… somebody give Leather Mike an award
June 3rd, 2010 at 8:49 pm
31 minutes for 4.6 miles? Thats bollox. I’d be trying to shave 3 minutes off that time!
June 4th, 2010 at 2:29 am
Fuck me. You’ll all be dead soon. Awful waste of time.
Hail satan.
June 10th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
Here’s my tuppence…fewer gigs but more one day festivals, on a weekend when we all have more time and a few quid to spend rather than work/school night gigs. Festivals are nearly always well promoted and signposted in advance. Costs (might/should) be lower for both bands and fans while more co-operation between bands may take the pressure off one individual/promoter.
If a band want to play for the heck of it, then fair play, let them play as often or as infrequent as they want. If on the other hand a band want to work hard at getting somewhere, then that’s going to take a higher amount of gigs, sometimes to a small audience in the middle of nowhere but that’s the nature of the beast. Hopefully the hard work will lead to a higher profile in due course.
July 2nd, 2010 at 4:37 am
Dwell in Sun don’t have t-shirts?? shock horror! fucken ‘ell DBM why did you not find this out first and take them off the bill???? sweet jesus, I want my 5 minutes back, never read so much shite in all my piff!…and more to the point, who the hell are Gorath??? Dyslexicks who can’t spell Gareth?
July 5th, 2010 at 7:09 pm
unfortunately dave the problem really resides in the fact that no one is interested in Gorath
and yeah there is probably a kernel of truth in the fact that younger bands rely on the net alone to try and bring people down to shows
back in the old days we spent days and days postering and flyering to move 50 people to a show
August 8th, 2011 at 9:56 am
“Hehe… somebody give Leather Mike an award
“