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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:44 am 

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I love the way that you're accusing others of knowing better, while you appear to think you know better than every metal band ever to have come from the island of Ireland.


The burden is on you guys to prove you know better. The facts speak for themselves, fuck all metal bands from Ireland have achieved any international recognition.

All ye have thrown up is the effort isn't worth it. X doesn't need to do it, or as Andy Cunningham reckons, "We're just doing it for a laugh"

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In any case, I bet lots of people including myself would be shocked at the names of bands that have always had either full-time or part-time day jobs for most if not all of their careers.


This applies to most of what we listen to. I was shocked as an 18 year old to read that Entombed all worked day jobs, that was at their commercial peak.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:49 am 

"fuck all metal bands from Ireland have achieved any international recognition. "

to be fair, that's not really true. Just off the top of my head, Primordial, Darkest Era, Waylander, Maverick, Gama Bomb, Overoth, Abbadon Incarnate etc. have all toured/festival'd on a legit international level, signed to labels, etc. You could also lump The Answer in there if you extended into Rock rather than just metal.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:53 am 

Padre Pio wrote:
As a side issue, it would be interesting to know how many metal bands world wide who formed after 1990 are fully professional?

I bet the numbers are quite low, and would be even lower again if you ignored (like I do! :P ) all the various metalcore-type genres.

In any case, I bet lots of people including myself would be shocked at the names of bands that have always had either full-time or part-time day jobs for most if not all of their careers.


I remember Johann Hegg saying they were only able quit their day jobs after Twilight of the Thunder God, that's seven albums and fifteen years after forming


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:53 am 

Padre Pio wrote:
As a side issue, it would be interesting to know how many metal bands world wide who formed after 1990 are fully professional?

I think you'd be surprised by the number of bands formed before 1990 too who were ever fully professional. It's nowhere near as high as you think.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:57 am 

Cryptic Stench wrote:
The facts speak for themselves, fuck all metal bands from Ireland have achieved any international recognition.

you also stated that similarly populated countries have produced more bands, that fact is plain bollocks


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:59 am 

Also, as has been pointed out the other X number of times this has been discussed over the years, Ireland, for its population size and the fact that it is an island, compete extremely well with Spain, Italy, Portugal, hell even Scotland and Wales were we to take them as separate countries, in terms of bands who have "made it", according to your fame criteria.

So Ireland has never produced an Immortal or a Carcass or a Judas Priest or a Gojira level of success band. Most other countries haven't either.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:00 pm 

Juggz wrote:
Padre Pio wrote:
As a side issue, it would be interesting to know how many metal bands world wide who formed after 1990 are fully professional?

I think you'd be surprised by the number of bands formed before 1990 too who were ever fully professional. It's nowhere near as high as you think.


Ah yeah, I know that. But I bet the proportions were somewhat better back then. 1990 is a bit of an arbitrary date, but I took it as a time when essentially all the current festival headlining bands had been formed as well as the biggest hitters of death metal - e.g. Morbid Angel, Cannibal Corpse, Obituary - who at least had some years as professional musicians.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:01 pm 

Regarding Primordial, let's just say they did jack their day jobs, risked everything to tour US clubs for 6 months and became very popular as a result... who's to say they would be a better band as a result? Would the next album be just a re-hash of the most recent one because they believe that's what their new legions of fans want, and because they've spent so much time on the road that they haven't the time to spend a couple of years off the road to conceive and write new material which would sit comfortably in their catalogue as progressive, forward-thinking art?

Primodrial are who they are in 2018 due to the path they've taken till now. Touring everywhere non-stop is probably not good for any artistic vision. How many bands back in the 70's would knock out a highly flawed album, written and recorded in a week, before hitting the road again as money from touring is what was needed to keep the show going. The band wouldn't even see the finished artwork until they were signing copies of it in a record shop somewhere in Cleveland!

It comes back to what I posted yesterday, as it possibly applies to Primordial, in that they probably wouldn't have got off the ground if the vision at the start was to tour non-stop till they 'made it'. The members may not have been able to commit to trying to be full time musicians from the get-go, or even when they were putting out albums and gaining attention. Maybe what they are as a band in 2018 is thanks to NOT doing the things which metal fans in general seem to think they should have done. Even if they'd risked it all back in the 90's attempting to be the next big thing, they possibly would've split.

Didn't really want this to be about Primordial, but they're a very good example of how far you can bring your band without following the expected cliched path. Plenty of bands would love to have their career, I'm sure, even if it means holding down a day job.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:04 pm 

fyfe79 wrote:
Regarding Primordial, let's just say they did jack their day jobs, risked everything to tour US clubs for 6 months and became very popular as a result... who's to say they would be a better band as a result? Would the next album be just a re-hash of the most recent one because they believe that's what their new legions of fans want, and because they've spent so much time on the road that they haven't the time to spend a couple of years off the road to conceive and write new material which would sit comfortably in their catalogue as progressive, forward-thinking art?

Primodrial are who they are in 2018 due to the path they've taken till now. Touring everywhere non-stop is probably not good for any artistic vision. How many bands back in the 70's would knock out a highly flawed album, written and recorded in a week, before hitting the road again as money from touring is what was needed to keep the show going. The band wouldn't even see the finished artwork until they were signing copies of it in a record shop somewhere in Cleveland!

It comes back to what I posted yesterday, as it possibly applies to Primordial, in that they probably wouldn't have got off the ground if the vision at the start was to tour non-stop till they 'made it'. The members may not have been able to commit to trying to be full time musicians from the get-go, or even when they were putting out albums and gaining attention. Maybe what they are as a band in 2018 is thanks to NOT doing the things which metal fans in general seem to think they should have done. Even if they'd risked it all back in the 90's attempting to be the next big thing, they possibly would've split.

Didn't really want this to be about Primordial, but they're a very good example of how far you can bring your band without following the expected cliched path. Plenty of bands would love to have their career, I'm sure, even if it means holding down a day job.


I said the same in my last post...nail on the head man.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:10 pm 

Yeah, said more or less the same: the touring lifestyle is renowned for putting creativity in jeopardy and/or risking the existence of the band full-stop.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:11 pm 

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whatever happened to Gamma Bomb, didn't they sort of make it for 5 minutes after getting signed by Earache etc. on the back of the recent-ish frash revival


We are still gigging etc.., new album out in August! \,,/


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:44 pm 

Image

Ye, saw you on behind the music John :P


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:46 pm 

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Darkest Era, Waylander, Maverick, Gama Bomb, Overoth, Abbadon Incarnate etc


Don't make me laugh Mike. This all ties into the delusion. (Before anyone has a go, all of the above are excellent bands in their own right except Maverick)

But answer me this, if they are so well renowned, how many people would Waylander pull on a headlining tour of Europe? Or any of the above for that matter.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:48 pm 

How many heads would any band form any country of an equivalent level to the bands mentioned pull? This isnt a problem thats inherently Irish or limited thereto, the problem is with the nature of the business that has irrevocably changed from the days when "making" it was actually possible.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:18 pm 

The only metal bands to ever 'make it' to a certain extent is Primordial & Gama Bomb, i.e these bands will pull abroad.
There are plenty of other bands (mentioned above) who have gigged and known a bit outside Ireland but that is it, not a 'pull' so to speak.

Originally I was only talking about young lad bands who will have a chance to make a career out of it but if you want to talk about older more experienced musicians / bands that have a chance to do something proper if they keep at it is definitely the likes of Stereo Nasty. They have the whole package stitched up for sure, proper releases & artwork, image, getting out of Ireland and doing PROPER gigs abroad.


Last edited by BobbyTheBuzz on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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