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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:45 pm 

Plenty of other minority groups that don't resort to this kind of thing because they feel excluded, so saying it's 'our fault' is ridiculous. Why pussyfoot around it? Islam has a problem with extremism.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:47 pm 

That's also true


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:48 pm 

Well in Britain where I lived for a while there is definitely an anti Muslim sentiment among some sections of the lower classes. It's a real "us and them" feeling and the Muslims don't help their cause by not integrating well.

I'm not sure what we can do to combat it, apart from not get involved in that us v them polarised situation which is what the extremists want.

In a way it's part of the reason why I didn't get my son baptised, despite some family and cultural pressure (as a dedicated metal head it was never gonna happen anyway! ). I don't want him growing up self identifying as one particular religion and regarding people of another as some how different. Not a healthy mindset. Unfortunately Islam is inherently us v them in it's outlook. At least that's how it comes across I'm no scholar on it.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 2:21 pm 

Eliminator wrote:
Plenty of other minority groups that don't resort to this kind of thing because they feel excluded, so saying it's 'our fault' is ridiculous. Why pussyfoot around it? Islam has a problem with extremism.


Plenty of other minority groups don't have their countries of heritage routinely blown to pieces by the West either.

Iraq is considerably worse off as a result of "Enduring Freedom" as is the entire region and most of the rest of the world to be honest.

What about Afghanistan? Respond to 9/11 by taking out a country that had absolutely nothing to do with any of it (the real perpetrators were almost all from countries allied with the West) in order to find the guy supposedly ultimately responsible, who wasn't there because he was being protected by an ally of the West.

This coupled with the fact that both the state and media pro-actively demonise Muslims doesn't help matters..

Islam has a problem with extremism, yeah. But we lit the fuse.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 3:07 pm 

A surreal 24 hours. The pub I work in is the nearest one to the arena. Just left it an hour before the attack after a training day. I heard the explosion and saw the madness after it as it's only 5 minute walk from the apartment..Horrible stuff. Then today I got the all clear from the cancer which I have had removed 2 weeks ago. 24 hours I won't forget in a hurry


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:13 pm 

ragnarok wrote:

Plenty of other minority groups don't have their countries of heritage routinely blown to pieces by the West either.


The middle east was hardly peaceful before the west intervened.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:23 pm 

Eliminator wrote:
ragnarok wrote:

Plenty of other minority groups don't have their countries of heritage routinely blown to pieces by the West either.


The middle east was hardly peaceful before the west intervened.


I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said though?

There's a distinct difference between regional instability causing problems (although the west has a hand in most of these anyway) and the country you were born in going to war, illegally, against the country your parents came from and where the majority of your extended family still live.

You get that, right?


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:29 pm 

ragnarok wrote:
Eliminator wrote:
Islam has a problem with extremism, yeah. But we lit the fuse.


That is so true.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:53 pm 

ragnarok wrote:
Eliminator wrote:
ragnarok wrote:

Plenty of other minority groups don't have their countries of heritage routinely blown to pieces by the West either.


The middle east was hardly peaceful before the west intervened.


I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said though?

There's a distinct difference between regional instability causing problems (although the west has a hand in most of these anyway) and the country you were born in going to war, illegally, against the country your parents came from and where the majority of your extended family still live.

You get that, right?


I agree with you that we certainly didn't help by stickin our dicks in the hornets nest, but the difference in attacks such as these is that they have religious motives as opposed to political.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:08 pm 

It goes with out saying that the US have no business involving themselves in the Middle East and what they've done is atrocious but this is very different to the terrorism of Northern Ireland, for example. ISIS' modus operandi seems to be to cause havoc in the West, purely because they hate our way of life. From what I gather it's based on a religious ideology, it doesn't seem to be a case of "Get your troops out of our country and we'll stop these attacks". If it's a religious endeavour more so than a political one, how are we supposed to find a resolution. You can't really negotiate under those terms. If it was purely a military issue, there'd be some basis to finding a solution. Dealing with religious fanaticism purely on its own terms is very different.

I try not to get too involved and am not as up to speed as probably most here and could easily be wrong.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:37 pm 

I've been thinking the same these past few days especially while seeing so much debate/arguing/chat on social media and online in general. On one hand there is the Western intervention in the Middle East and war mongering being brought up as the primary reason for radical Islamic groups. There is also the religious side to it, which nearly all regular and decent Muslim communities would reject and state that what ISIS are proclaiming to be their religious duty/cause, is in fact not at all Islamic. It seems to me that extremist groups are using both as reasons for doing what they are doing. Bottom line is they are completely focussed on creating total chaos for the US and Europe, to destroy it from the inside out at any cost. How do you stop something like this, it's impossible.

The severity and rapid nature of how frequent these attacks are coming all in the name of a minority group who seem to be nothing more than a deathcult, is frightening and very depressing as it's seemingly something we can find no end/resolution to.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:36 pm 

Is the whole thing not just about oil? The west wants the oil/resources and that's why they're there. Surely religion is just a smokescreen. I mean the people at the head of any religion doesn't actually believe any of that nonsense. They just have power and use the brainwashed to do their bidding. Anyway... I'm sure even if that is true it doesn't make any difference or help in anyway


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:50 pm 

Nasgul_Brian wrote:
There is also the religious side to it, which nearly all regular and decent Muslim communities would reject and state that what ISIS are proclaiming to be their religious duty/cause, is in fact not at all Islamic.


I think that is the thing which annoys me most.

I hate Islam as much as I hate any other religion, but I'm willing to listen when the overwhelming majority of Muslims state what these guys are up to is not representative of their religion. They know better than me and I've no reason not to believe them, but there's always some prick on Facebook who knows best.

What would have fixed the situation is if stable governments had been left in place. Regardless of the track record of Hussein, Assad or Gaddafi they kept things under control and kept the region largely stable. Talk to virtually anyone living it what's left of Iraq, Syria or Libya now and ask them if they'd prefer it how it was or how it is now and watch what they say.

ISIS right now have the run of that whole part of the world and have access to all the money and resources that were there. If Saddam had still been in charge they wouldn't have existed, because they didn't when he was and the people were happier too, or the ones he wasn't trying to kill were anyway.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 7:59 pm 

pedro wrote:
Is it definitely only a reaction to countries who are involved in Afghanistan/Iraq/war against ISIS etc though? The countries being hit seem to have large Muslim populations too. France, Sweden, Belgium, Britain, Germany..are they all involved in stuff out in those countries? I don't know it's a genuine question. I know Britain are and France probably too. What about Germany for example?


I don't think so besides why only mention European countries suicide bombings happen even more so outside of Europe. There is a difference in motivation between a suicide bombing that happens in England and one that happens in Pakistan or Egypt ? The Syrian conflict seems to have allowed a platform for this kind of violence to really rise but it doesn't come out of nowhere IS isn't a new as might be thought and even then it has roots in earlier organisations.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 9:21 pm 

ragnarok wrote:

What would have fixed the situation is if stable governments had been left in place. Regardless of the track record of Hussein, Assad or Gaddafi they kept things under control and kept the region largely stable.


Which is why Assad needs to be kept in place at all costs.


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