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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:20 am 

I completely disagree that this shouldn't be celebrated - and saying "it's still an awful thing for a woman to go through" has very little to do with what has actually happened.

It'd be savage if no woman ever needed an abortion. It'd be amazing if they never found themselves in that situation. But that's not what we voted on. We didn't vote on women not being in that situation because we can't control that situation.

What we did vote on was making it so that they'll actually get the treatment they need in their own country. That it'll become less stigmatized. That with it becoming legal, support groups and systems can be put in place for those women who have negative experiences afterwards. We got to bring ourselves into the modern age.

And yes - we did get to show the church, the group who in our lifetime still held and still do hold a enormous amount of sway and power that they shouldn't be afforded that their time is quickly coming to an end. This isn't like some 20 year old wanting to be in the Ra and getting rid of the Brits because thats what Eamo' de Valera. It's a bunch of people who are the majority probably all registered as Catholics, have all been through Baptism, Communion, Confirmation and who maybe even are going to put their kids through the same shite just to get into a school not letting the single most powerful political party that this country has ever seen not allow that political party to tell them what to do.

That's all just a nice bonus on top of giving women proper access to healthcare and showing the world we're not a complete set of fucking gowls.


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:55 am 

Sure who is arguing any of that? The point being made is that, yes, all of that is positive and leads to a more equal, safe and fair society for women and it is to be celebrated. I think everyone posting here is pleased with the result. It's just strange to see the levels of jubilation when you pause to consider what the vote was about. The state will now allow women to make a choice that is still going to be the hardest decision they'll possibly ever have to make in their lives and one that may have Long lasting repercussions, both physically and mentally. Let's hope that the government can do this properly and put the proper structures in place for after care. Not trying to piss on the parade at all, I just think that there is a realistic side to this vote that should be considered.


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:06 am 

The Irish women who campaigned, shared, fought, and voted for Yes are celebrating this. They're celebrating it through the emotion they all feel from it. There were as many tears on voting day and on tally day as there were whoops and applause. Whatever ye thought about the referendum being a question for men rather than women, how to respond to this democratic victory is absolutely for them to decide, since it's the women who have won something out of this: they have won their choice. Whether or not you introduce an element of "fuck the church" into that is another issue. I think the women, most of whom are more likely to be aware of a close friend or relative who had to travel in a crisis before, are more directly in touch with the emotional conflict of celebration vs tragic emotion than anyone who's likely to post here.


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:13 am 

Absolutely agree with you.


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:14 am 

Jesus Phish wrote:
I completely disagree that this shouldn't be celebrated - and saying "it's still an awful thing for a woman to go through" has very little to do with what has actually happened.

It'd be savage if no woman ever needed an abortion. It'd be amazing if they never found themselves in that situation. But that's not what we voted on. We didn't vote on women not being in that situation because we can't control that situation.

What we did vote on was making it so that they'll actually get the treatment they need in their own country. That it'll become less stigmatized. That with it becoming legal, support groups and systems can be put in place for those women who have negative experiences afterwards. We got to bring ourselves into the modern age.

And yes - we did get to show the church, the group who in our lifetime still held and still do hold a enormous amount of sway and power that they shouldn't be afforded that their time is quickly coming to an end. This isn't like some 20 year old wanting to be in the Ra and getting rid of the Brits because thats what Eamo' de Valera. It's a bunch of people who are the majority probably all registered as Catholics, have all been through Baptism, Communion, Confirmation and who maybe even are going to put their kids through the same shite just to get into a school not letting the single most powerful political party that this country has ever seen not allow that political party to tell them what to do.

That's all just a nice bonus on top of giving women proper access to healthcare and showing the world we're not a complete set of fucking gowls.


hungover writing that..forget it


Last edited by pedro on Mon May 28, 2018 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:24 am 

You’re very negative Pedro! Being proud of the country can be a positive on occasion?


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:28 am 

Black Shepherd Carnage wrote:
The Irish women who campaigned, shared, fought, and voted for Yes are celebrating this. They're celebrating it through the emotion they all feel from it. There were as many tears on voting day and on tally day as there were whoops and applause. Whatever ye thought about the referendum being a question for men rather than women, how to respond to this democratic victory is absolutely for them to decide, since it's the women who have won something out of this: they have won their choice. Whether or not you introduce an element of "fuck the church" into that is another issue. I think the women, most of whom are more likely to be aware of a close friend or relative who had to travel in a crisis before, are more directly in touch with the emotional conflict of celebration vs tragic emotion than anyone who's likely to post here.


That's a fair point.


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:38 am 

same


Last edited by pedro on Mon May 28, 2018 6:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 1:36 pm 

I dont think that celebrating the outcome is the same as turning into a laugh or deminutizing the reality of the situation. It is a thing to celebrate that women now have proper healthcare in all situations in this country including some of the darkest moments of a womans life. What we are celebrating is compasion, not abortion.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:50 pm 

I find the idea of abortion abhorrant personally, and I believe sincerely that life begins at the moment of conception (for the record I'm not in any way religious). The method of pregnancy termination is repulsive as are organisations like Planned Parenthood in the US.

Nevertheless, and despite my natural revulsion to the practice, it's very hard to justify obliging a woman to take a child of rape to term (these pregnancies are about 0.5% of all abortions, with some variation by region). It's also foolish to ignore the fact that whether we like it or not, a solution to an unwanted pregnancy is a Ryanair flight away, and that is not going to change.

Therefore if I were at home, i would have abstained. I couldn't morally vote for unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks (its 20 weeks here in Spain which I find utterly grotesque). On the other hand, there are too many 'what if's' to be considered, however unpalatable the consequence would be to me personally to vote No.

I have had several heated debates about this subject, and even my parents disagree with me for the most part. An ex girlfriend of mine looked at me like I was mental when I spoke up once about while on holiday. Conservative opinions of any kind seem not to be tolerated at all these days, but that's a debate for another day.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:08 pm 

To be fair, an awful lot of conservatives come across as utterly mental and/or morally bankrupt and any kind of association with them is cause for concern. As ever, the attention-grabbing extremists on both sides tend to distract from the more reasoned folk towards the middle.


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