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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:08 am 

Caomhaoin wrote:
If you are going to believe in a messiah, perhaps this is your man.

Canadian clinical psychologist, the bird bought me his book for my birthday, named '12 rules for life, an antidote to chaos' (make of the choice of present what you will). An incredible read! Anecdotal yet empirical, I would consider it a life changing book, especially for men treading water in life.

I subsequently watched a lot of his YouTube lectures, and it turns out he is far more than a self help merchant - he became a household name in Canada for refusing to follow the compelled speech edict regarding transgender pronouns and the absoloutely roasted some channel four journalist who tried to bait him for half an hour.

Any other disciples?


:lol:
You're absolutely priceless.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:49 am 

Oh hello again. Youre the guy who ran home and cried to Mama after making yourself look a tit in the other thread, right? If you fancy round two, come ahead :)

What you have emphasized there, that is what is referred to as a 'play on words'. If you read any of the reviews I write, you'll see it's a device I often employ (because ya know, I'm a simpleton, and I lack the wit to express myself with more organic language). It's like a theme, ya know, gives a nice tidy feel to the post, don't you think?

I wouldn't mind if you had pointed out some terrible faux pas I had made (no one is perfect after all, right, ladín?) but it's clear even to the meanest of intellects that you're sore after you looked a spa in the other thread and you're trying to even the score. Unfortunately for you, your attempt was made without any bite or sophistication.

I've got more than 4000 posts and 25 odd reviews you can look through if you're that keen on proving that I am the idiot that you suggest. G'wan, have a look, you're bound to find something ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:20 am 

Fuck me, the spirit of Nixer lives on.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:58 am 

JP is a name I've been hearing and reading so much about in passing, so this thread prompted me to actually dig in to some. Listened to a few podcasts now, seen the Cathy Newman intv, etc etc.

And I think I just wonder... where all that just under the surface anger comes from.

There's something of the night about him.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:17 am 

He used to be a bit of a peeve artist in his youth, and the opening part of the book where he talks about his companions as a chap and his childhood in general are a bit murky, now that you mention it.

The most famous video of his, bar the Cathy Newman one is when he is confronted by a Trans activist, given the usual diatribe of Nazis et al. The person confronting is obnoxious and just chiming the usual rhetoric at him, but you can see that he suffers fools not at all, and gets exasperated rather quickly, you can see the flash of rage in his eyes.

It's clear I am a fan of the man, but yes, despite being publically the picture of tranquillity, there is a touch of the dark in him…(not necessarily a bad thing mind…)


Last edited by Caomhaoin on Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:24 am 

Doesn't seem angry at all. The Cathy Newman interview saw him being attacked from second one and he tried his best not to rise to the pressure. Journalists should not be taking a stance on issues, there should be an element of impartiality to their roles, but she wanted to lecture, educate and force her own agenda on the interview. Whether she was right or wrong is entirely irrelevant. That said, I don't agree with everything Peterson says, he's very conservative for my liking, but I think we need strong voices to counteract the self serving echo chamber that is much of our media nowadays. Someone like Newman is essetially a spokesperson for certain agendas and she's given free rein as an interviewer to talk over and shut down those who she may not agree with. That is neither democratic nor in line with the idea of professional integrity that a journalist is expected to suscribe to.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:57 am 

Yeah I dont mean the content - that intv was quite preposterous on many levels - its more his body language and very thinly veiled anger.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:28 am 

Well he talks a lot about the shadow self, acknowledging it and mastering it so that you are in control of it and not vice versa, so maybe he is just practicing what he preaches? We all have that savage side to our personality, it's about how we control it and use it to our advantage. Or have I misunderstood the concept?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:57 am 

He has inspired me to start reading Jacques Derrida.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:58 am 

Quote:
When I was 11 I was pretty sure an erection was for pissing over high walls, now I'm Jordan Peterson's disciple.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:02 am 

A couple of months back I toyed with the idea of writing a piece on Peterson but then decided something broader and requiring much more research would be better. This may or may not turn into one of dozens of half-finished pieces sitting on my hard-drive. It did mean that I gathered quite a bit of material presenting various points of view, and this letter from the Canadian Bar Association (bar as in barrister, of course) goes through exactly what C-16 does and does not imply. Peterson's evade to get around the fact that the law does not state what he claims it states has been to say that universities would use C-16 in a way that goes beyond the written word of the law. This may or may not be the case, but where it did happen, appeal to the law would make it clear where fault lay:

https://www.cba.org/CMSPages/GetFile.as ... 2eeb762d7f
“Letter from René J. Basque, QC/cr, President of the Canadian Bar Association, to The Honourable Bob Runciman, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs, May 10, 2017"


Regarding the self-help aspect: it's all fairly obvious stuff and widely available from countless other sources. The reason you're getting self-help from Peterson is related to him making himself famous by standing up against a group of immature, inarticulate spoiled brats (let's not be in any doubt about how easy these student groups have made it for Peterson to gain traction).

Regarding the socio-political aspect: he's a conservative. He espouses very obvious, very basic conservative view points, which he generally articulates well. Individuals who are also basically conservative gravitate towards him, soak up what he says that agrees with their viewpoints and don't question his sources, as long as his conclusion more or less comfortably matches with their pre-established world view. This is where you stand Kev. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with being conservative, per se, but there is something wrong with accepting a perspective that is almost too comforting to your established world view, precisely because it leads you into a biased way of thinking that is detrimental to your capacity for critical thinking. The "leftist" "liberals" screaming at Peterson are, very obviously, just as guilty of this.

Jon Oliver is insufferable, for the same reason: he also generates candy for people assumed by demographic analysis to hold certain view points. He too does more harm to collective intelligence than good. You can basically put any US talk show host in this category, regardless of whether they're conservative or liberal.

You will naturally question conclusions and perspectives that go against your own beliefs. You get no prizes for doing this. You should, however, train yourself to naturally question the sources of conclusions that fit too nicely with what you already believe. As I've said, Peterson - by how he chooses to focus the bulk of his supposedly disentangling argumentation - quite explicitly encourages the opposite of this: question what you don't agree with, feed what you do agree with.

If any of you really want to get a better handle on how to really "self-help" your mental capacities, then get started on the classic psychology literature on cognitive dissonance and the mechanisms by which we (unconsciously) resolve it: Festinger, Ross, Anderson, etc.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:31 am 

I'm willing to accept that, as regards biased thinking, it perhaps isn't helpful to exclusively read or absorb material from authors who articulate ones own world view, and who ridicule or dismiss the other side. You are right, I do question JBP and his sources less than others, precisely because I find him so compelling. It's food for thought, so cheers.

The self help thing, as far as that goes, I think is objective. It may seem rudimentary and lacking in nuance from your perspective, but it hardly matters when you have tends of thousands of people thanking him personally for giving them the tools to improve their lives, and I count myself among them. The culture war frontschwein you see YouTube takes a back seat in his book.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:04 pm 

Caomhaoin wrote:
The self help thing, as far as that goes, I think is objective. It may seem rudimentary and lacking in nuance from your perspective, but it hardly matters when you have tends of thousands of people thanking him personally for giving them the tools to improve their lives, and I count myself among them.


Absolutely agree with you: there is an enormous population out there who need the kind of self-help, self-assertiveness, etc., that he is able to deliver. The "problem" (or at least potential problem) is what he, personally, packages along with it. And if you don't have a wholly objective take on his vision beyond the strictly clinical psychology, then you may well end up swallowing a lot of dubious excipient along with the clinical compound.

And, you see, what I'm saying more than anything else is that if Peterson was genuinely interested in aiding the intelligence of his public, he would be addressing this point head on and directly instructing his "disciples" in how to avoid ever cultivating a disciple mentality. He does the opposite of this: he overtly capitalizes on this mentality. Arena debate tours at top dollar prices? Pff, it's not quite Jim Jones territory, but it's pretty fucking exploitative.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:35 pm 

Festinger, Ross, Anderson. I'll give them a look. Cheers, Chris.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:25 pm 

Earl Grey wrote:
Yeah I dont mean the content - that intv was quite preposterous on many levels - its more his body language and very thinly veiled anger.


From the beginning the Cathy Newman interview was intended to be a hit piece. Perfectly normal to react in an adversarial way when someone is intending to slander you on a very public platform. From the very first question she tried to put words in his mouth. Irish and British journalists do that a lot. Get the answer to the question and rephrase it in a way that makes someone racist/sexist/bigoted. Intentionally misunderstanding what a person is saying is another trick employed in the interview. Deal with a lot of journalists like that and I'm sure you would lose the rag after a while.


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