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| Loki |
 Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:20 am |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 931
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| I have a technical question relating to Latin grammar and can't seem to cobble together an answer. anyone up for a PM? |
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| Crow |
| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:05 am |
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Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 7861
Location: Rockefeller, Campanella, Communist Bok
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| kunt 4 life |
| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:58 am |
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Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1677
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| I done (did?) Latin for 3 years at secondary school. They say it helps you with learning other languages but i was still shit at french. Was ok at latin but couldnt tell you much since its been 20 years. |
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| Juggz |
| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:39 am |
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Joined: 01 Nov 2011
Posts: 1196
Location: Under A Lesbian Moon
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| Crow |
| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:04 am |
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Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 7861
Location: Rockefeller, Campanella, Communist Bok
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| Loki |
| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:53 am |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 931
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| sent you on a message there Crow, cheers! |
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| Caller of the Black |
| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:13 pm |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 3092
Location: in cold water with disinfectant
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| Myself or Taranis might be able to assist also |
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| Taranis |
| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:32 pm |
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Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 1885
Location: Inis, An Clįr/Cambridge, UK/Heidelberg, Germany
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| Yep, if Crow can't sort you out drop one of us a line. |
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| Shunyata |
| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:26 pm |
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Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 1435
Location: Let's get fucked up
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Dead language. I preferred the classics to French though, funny how that works. I think it was more that Latin "exams" consisted mostly of translating legends and genuinely interesting historical accounts into English.
I remember being bored after finishing a greek translation (that was basically Odyssey IX) and sitting writing about the meeting with Aeolus. Got my paper back a few weeks later with what amounted to don't be a smartarse scrawled across the bottom. |
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| Loki |
| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:42 pm |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 931
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I was never that fussed on it myself, but the field I'm in / hoping to head further into makes either it or Greek somewhat essential.
cheers to Caller...and Taranis - i'll put the question up so. There's a piece that begins "Cvr splendes, O Phoebe?"; translators make this Apollo-Phoebus and read the opening as Sun-as-God etc. I think there's an argument that it could be both Apollo-Phoebus and Phoebe, the Greek symbol of radiant intellect. Does "splendes" indicate a specifically masculine noun? Can put up a link to the whole thing if it's any use, it's 5 or 6 lines tops. |
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| Shunyata |
| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:44 pm |
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Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 1435
Location: Let's get fucked up
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| Well, typically you describe the sun as shining, not the moon. Context is everything really. |
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| Loki |
| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:12 pm |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 931
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| ha, true! there remains a question though. It's part of a series of works regarding an ascension that culminates in an exhortation to rob the moon; if the link is there I'd like to make it. I'm struggling to see why the author would use Phoebe instead of Apollo or Phoebus though. |
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| Taranis |
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:34 am |
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Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 1885
Location: Inis, An Clįr/Cambridge, UK/Heidelberg, Germany
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Right, this is slightly more complicated than I first thought!
You'll have to rule out splendes as giving you a clue to this, there are plenty of references to both sun and moon shining in various languages, including our own. Also, splendes is second person singular (of splendere), so it wouldn't be gender specific in any way.
At first glance, I thought it was a stone cold case of it referring to Phoebus.
My reason for this was that Phoebe is the vocative of Phoebus, it is a second declension masculine noun, and no other form takes that ending in the vocative.
But...
Phoebē as a (feminine) nominative is a loanword from Greek, which places it in a small fairly rare group of nouns consisting of Greek loanwords tacked on to the first declension, even though they decline a little differently. The vocative of that would also be Phoebē.
So,
The only way of really telling is if it has an -e or -ē ending, which unfortunately usually is not indicated in ancient texts. However, you might find and indication in the metre, there may even be a rhyming scheme.
There are a lot of classicists here in Cambridge, so if you badly need a better answer than this, I could ask one of the ones I know when I run into them, as I am but a humble medievalist. |
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| Loki |
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:32 am |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 931
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thanks a million for the help lads, much appreciated.  |
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| Taranis |
| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:31 pm |
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Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 1885
Location: Inis, An Clįr/Cambridge, UK/Heidelberg, Germany
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| No bother, it's always nice coming up against a puzzle! |
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