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< The Irish Metal Forum ~ What happens when Irish dinosaurs call it a day? |
| Daithi |
 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:54 pm |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 3383
Location: Dresden
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Invictus wrote: You disagree yet you're ONE person that you can point directly to that came through that entire scene?
Sure everyone has to start somewhere. For me it was hearing Bon Jovi's 'Living On A Prayer' on the radio all the time in '86. Loads of others probably started the same way. A tiny proportion delved deeper and stayed the course. Most drifted away. Whether it's Bon Jovi on the radio or Eat My Ass By Daybreak on the latest Metal Hammer sampler CD, it's all the same thing. |
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| Jesus Phish |
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:56 pm |
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Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 1635
Location: dublin
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| I'd be another. I used to listen to awful shite that would've been on the cover on MH, played shitty metallica covers in my shitty teenage band and eventually ended up meeting someone who gave me a loan of the first Deicide cd. About a month later I was buying more black and death metal and stopped listening to most of the MH bands. |
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| Invictus |
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:08 pm |
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Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 8330
Location: Into The Void Records
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The point is, when a lot of people my age were teenagers, we wanted to play in thrash/death or black metal bands. The link between GNR, AC/DC, Metallica, Slayer, Morbid Angel, Death, Emperor was quite obvious.
The link between what has passed as mainstream metal since 2000 and the underground just doesn't appear to be there. |
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| Jesus Phish |
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:13 pm |
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Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 1635
Location: dublin
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Invictus wrote: The point is, when a lot of people my age were teenagers, we wanted to play in thrash/death or black metal bands. The link between GNR, AC/DC, Metallica, Slayer, Morbid Angel, Death, Emperor was quite obvious.
The link between what has passed as mainstream metal since 2000 and the underground just doesn't appear to be there.
Perhaps for your generation. But then things moved on and suddenly those bands werent so popular in magazines or coverage.
Just because some kid is in his Bullet for My Valintine cover band right now trying to impress some girl, doesn't mean that in X years time he's going to start the next great irish black metal band.
Having Blast as an entry point for bands, is better than nothing. And even if they're not playing the metal you like right now, doesn't mean they're not going to get interested in the more underground stuff and progress in that |
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| Eoin McLove |
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:15 pm |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 15397
Location: In the village by the hangman's bay.
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| That's utter bollocks. The mainstream stuff is very extreme I think. Stuff like Mastodon, Devin Townsend or Meshuggah are very much in the extreme bracket, sonically at least. These are all MH bands. Even the likes of Slipknot and JFAC are closer to DM than anything else!!! What is stopping the people listening to these bands taking the small step from there to Morbid Angel etc? Surely it's just a matter of time for those who are in it for the long run. |
Last edited by Eoin McLove on Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Eoin McLove |
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:17 pm |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005
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Location: In the village by the hangman's bay.
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| That post was aimed at fucking Dozy O'Leary by the way! |
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| JonK |
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:27 pm |
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Joined: 10 Jun 2009
Posts: 1485
Location: Dublin
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| I'd agree with that. There are definitely plenty of bands in the mainstream metal press that, while not being Cruciamentum, are still quite heavy and it lays down a logical path for finding more underground stuff for those that genuinely want to explore. I can say that that's how it worked for me as well. |
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| Daithi |
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:38 pm |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 3383
Location: Dresden
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Invictus wrote: The point is, when a lot of people my age were teenagers, we wanted to play in thrash/death or black metal bands. The link between GNR, AC/DC, Metallica, Slayer, Morbid Angel, Death, Emperor was quite obvious.
The link between what has passed as mainstream metal since 2000 and the underground just doesn't appear to be there.
Not quite sure what the point you are making there is, to be honest.
Those mainstream bands you mention (AC/DC etc.) are still the mainstream. So, where the difference between the mainstream of the past and that of today is, I'm not sure. And whether they are more likely to have inspired young people to pick up a guitar and start a band than seeing a much more contemporary small act achieve a modicum of success, I'm not sure. In other words, what influenced more young BM bands: the desire to be like the megastars Metallica or seeing a bunch of spotty fifteen year olds from Norway plastered all over Kerrang and achieve success from the kind of down to earth beginnings we all can relate to as kids? I was never really much inclined towards a musical career, but whenever my thoughts did drift that way, I was always much more inspired by the notion that while I was in third year sitting my inter cert, Ivar and the lads in Enslaved (my own age) were recording 'Hordane's Land' and not by any desire to be the next Dave Mustaine!
If you're referring to the modern equivalent of that middle echelon of bands (somewhere between Slayer and Morbid Angel, also still present), I'm sure the current bands occupying that segment will count AC/DC and co. amongst their influences too, along with a whole host of other bands. And I'm sure that there'll be no shortage of up and coming bands that claim these new middle-mainstream bands as their influences in turn. Sure, how many clones have Bullet For My Valentine and Trivium spawned in the few years they've been on the go? Loads, I'm sure. The thing is, how many Bullet For My Valentine inspired bands do you listen to?! You don't like BFMV, so why would you listen to the bands they've inspired? They have their underground too. (I also have little doubt that the likes of Trivium helped spark the current crop of Skeletonwitch type bands too - a reaction to demonstrate where the 'real' origins of Thrash lie maybe, but a direct reaction nevertheless. But that's neither there.)
With the various stations you mentioned above, the line from AC/DC to Emperor is plausible, but take out the various gradations inbetween and the link is highly tenuous. The same is true for the other genres (that you and I don't listen to). Between AC/DC and young and upcoming band X there is no obvious connection, insert Machine Head, Bullet For My Valentine, Bring Me The Horizon or whatever inbetween and all of a sudden you have it. Your mistake, to my mind, is the implication that 'your underground' has sole claim to AC/DC etc. as an influence. There'll be hordes of rock fans and bands who'll no doubt tell you that we as metallers can fuck on off with our claim to 'ownership' of AC/DC.
So, yeah, if all of that's a little convoluted, it's because I really have no idea of the point you were trying to make, and about ten different possible interpretations came to mind as I was typing. |
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| Eoin McLove |
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:41 pm |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005
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Location: In the village by the hangman's bay.
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| Spot on, Dave. So we are all agreed, Darragh is a big fucking elitist and we're all gonna kick the shite out of him next time we see him. |
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| Invictus |
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:25 pm |
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Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 8330
Location: Into The Void Records
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Jesus wept.
Missing the point. 'My underground'? Fuck off with that crap for a start.
The point is fucking simple. Read it clearly and see.
Mastodon = big band, BFMV = big band, BMTH = BIG FUCKING BAND.
If they are your influences as a kid and it has FUCK ALL to do with ANYTHING UNDERGROUND OR UNDERGROUND HEAVINESS, but if THESE bands are YOUR influences then there is simply NO FUCKING AVENUE for your bands playing in that style from here to break out and if I am wrong then where's the evidence?
If the only things I was into as a kid were big bands, irrespective of my generation, then I would have tried to emulate those in big bands. The same can be applied to kids in the past 10-15 years in terms of what they found as mainstream influences.
It's not that difficult a point to follow.
The metal world has changed dramatically and the way a lot of bands went from rehearsal, demo tape, signed, album, tour has changed and the type of bands that are popular and have been popular in the mainstream reflect that. |
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| Eoin McLove |
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:30 pm |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 15397
Location: In the village by the hangman's bay.
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| Surely there is hope for bands into that style to break into that scene? It's tougher than breaking into the DM, BM or doom UG as they are much smaller. Your point about people who follow those bands as teenagers having no direct link to the deep underground stuff is nonsense. Especially with the internets. |
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| Invictus |
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:47 pm |
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Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 8330
Location: Into The Void Records
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Eoin McLove wrote: Your point about people who follow those bands as teenagers having no direct link to the deep underground stuff is nonsense. Especially with the internets.
It's not nonsense and you're only saying it's nonsense cos all of three people (in this thread, including you) found their ways out of it into the underground and into different gear.
Any of the twenty somethings I know into metal across Europe didn't get into metal through what's on offer in Kerrang/Metal Hammer. Sure they may like Machine Head or Pantera (or may have liked them) but it's Kiss, Maiden, Metallica, Slayer and so on that got them into the sort of stuff that you're currently touting as their bands Andy. |
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| Eoin McLove |
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:54 pm |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 15397
Location: In the village by the hangman's bay.
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| I don't get how you can possibly say that as though it is some kind of difinitive rule. From my experience it is more likely that they are afraid to admit it in case the 'right people' look down their noses at them. It's their dirty little shameful secret. Time to pull the head out of the hoop on that one (them that is) and stop being such little bitches. So fucking what if you like/liked Slipknot or JFAC. Sure, people will slag you but fucking grow a pair and lash the slagging back. |
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| Jesus Phish |
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:14 pm |
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Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 1635
Location: dublin
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Eoin McLove wrote: I don't get how you can possibly say that as though it is some kind of difinitive rule. From my experience it is more likely that they are afraid to admit it in case the 'right people' look down their noses at them. It's their dirty little shameful secret. Time to pull the head out of the hoop on that one (them that is) and stop being such little bitches. So fucking what if you like/liked Slipknot or JFAC. Sure, people will slag you but fucking grow a pair and lash the slagging back.
I'm in agreement here. A lot of people are too afraid to show they didnt grow up listening to only the most extreme music and "fuck that mainstream slipknot MH bullshit!"
I'd also say most of the 20 somethings I would know, who'd be in the lower age bracket or 20 something, would have all like me, grown up listening to the big name metal bands of our youth, which wouldve been pantera, metallica, slipknot, and -gasp- linkin park and limp bizkit! |
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| Sentinel Records |
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:40 pm |
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Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 12913
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I think Darragh may have a point though. Rosie listened to goth after reading about it in Kerrang and Metal Hammer, now look at her.
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